CHICAGO RETAIL ROUNDTABLE
An in-depth discussion with experts of Chicago retail.
Moderated by Jerrold France, Randall Shearin and Chris Thorn

Shopping Center Business and Heartland Real Estate Business held their annual Chicago Retail Roundtable in early August at LaSalle Bank's boardroom in Chicago. Again, the table was full as representatives from more than 25 area developers, brokers and financial institutions discussed the area's vibrant climate.

Participants at Heartland Real Estate Business's 2005 Chicago Retail Roundtable, hosted by LaSalle Bank.

SCB: Todd [Caruso], can you give an overview of the market as far as retail is concerned?

Todd Caruso.

SCB: James [Turner], can you give us an idea of the lending climate in the city and the suburbs and how they compare on a national basis?

Turner: It's a great time to be a borrower in this market. There are the most aggressive deals I've seen in 15 years of banking relative to low rates and high advances. The conduit groups now are clamoring for additional products. I've been shaking my head for awhile; you wonder when is this bubble going to break and I continue to hear investors say that there are no other alternatives that they'd like as opposed to quality real estate. They're happy to buy it and sell 6.5 cap down to 6 cap, and if they have to they just go in on the cash basis and take that type of return rate. When they look at their other alternative investments they won't see anything that stays as strong. I thought the cap rates were ridiculous maybe when they were just pushing into the sub-7. Now they're close to 6 percent. Webster Place, which is a perfect example, reasonably sold for 6.5 percent and now we have the tenantcy-in-common entering the market that are putting together good deals. There's a lot of capital out there chasing products.

SCB: How does Chicago's lending climate compare nationally?

Turner: Here we are high on the curve. We're not anywhere near some of the other markets that you see, the South Florida, Southern California market. We're abreast of it but once you get down to the lower 6 cap, how much more abreast can you be? You get to a point where people are paying [low cap rates] and it's just like how much more can we go?

SCB: Fran Spencer, in the city there's an awful lot of big boxes coming into your area and a lot of smaller tenants. Can you give us an idea who the big boxes are coming in and how the city is working with retailers and developers to encourage development?

Spencer: I think two of our biggest projects probably are Riverside District which Denver [McGarey] will be talking about and the old Block 37 that is moving ahead. We had Brickyard for quite awhile; that was a big one. And the other large ones are 26th and Costner and the 119th and Murrayfield. Those two have recently gotten new ownership which will be moving those projects ahead. We also have 83rd and Stewart which is going to be very good for the South Side. We've got several people who have emphasized the 50-acre site that used to be Rierson Steel. It is now going to be anchored by Lowe's and they are looking for another large anchor and if they don't get it, they're still going ahead with that project. We're also seeing a lot of the smaller tenants coming here. Recently, a Chicago newspaper said that Chicago is one of the top retail test markets, and I think we're seeing that with Pollo Comparo, who just opened its first Chicago area store and the Levy Corporation has got that franchise through Wisconsin, Illinois and Florida. Cereality, which everyone laughed about last year, is doing absolutely gangbusters. If you get a chance to go by it, they're right on Monroe by the river. Eatzi's is about to open at the Century. We will be working more with some of our small independent retailers to give them the opportunity to expand, move into some of these other community areas and make their community shopping areas more of a destination. We're working hard to take some of the successful mom-and-pop and independent retailers and give them what they need — give them the rebates, the different types of programs and such, so we can get them into other communities. Everybody asks, ‘where are your next hot areas in Chicago?' We like to say, ‘all 77 of our community areas are really our hot areas.' We're seeing a lot of change in the Kendler, Oakwood and Brownsville areas. There's just unbelievable housing going in there. There's lots of room for development in that area. Kohl's has opened their first urban store in Elston.

SCB: What about the Mills project on State Street? How is it progressing?

Spencer: It's coming along, they're working very hard on it. They've got some tenants but they have not really announced them yet. A lot of that is the infrastructure work that has to be done because it includes the super CTA station underneath. That issue has to be resolved and in place before they can really start foundation work yet.

SCB: Denver [McGarey], you are involved with Riverside District, a huge project for Chicago right now. Why don't you give us an overview of what the project is and where you are at at this point?

McGarey: We've sort of branded the Riverside District as a campus because it's true mixed use. It's very urban in nature. It's designed by Joseph Antunovich who is based here in Chicago. It has over 4,000 residential units, 670,000 square feet of what we call high street retail and there is underground parking that is nested third level residential. What we've done is taken the South Side story for people who grew up here and we've changed perception. We went out to the national marketplace and the response was overwhelming simply because of the rooftops. There's no genius involved; it's timing and I think from our standpoint we see an opportunity for at least 2 million square feet within what we would consider that Roosevelt Corridor. Wherever that happens, whether it's across the street or a block away or however it goes, it potentially can come together and provide the South Side with all the things that are on the North Side. Hopefully, we'll get under construction in about 5 months. We're having great success from the leasing front and once things weigh out with the city one way or the other in terms of finance, we'll have our clear path to the goal line. Right now, we're leasing with intent to deliver in the spring or mid-summer of 2008.

SCB: Greg [Moyer], Marcus & Millichap is a big player in the investment market. Could you give us an overview of the investment climate in and around the Chicago area?

Greg Moyer.

SCB: Is there any area of the city where investors really want to buy property?

Moyer: It's a little hard to believe but markets are very, very strong for shopping centers. I'm selling strip centers next to vacant Wal-Marts. You think, boy, that's gonna be a little bit of a tough lease. What's pretty difficult is everyone wants “main on main.” So if “main on main” is the 5.5 cap rate from the apartment building, when they get a mile of “main on main” they still want that 5.5 cap rate. Move away from “main on main” and that cap rate would have to change. Single tenant net lease businesses are still as strong as ever. Instead of having 10 offers, maybe I have 8, on every deal.

SCB: Moving from the South Side to Michigan Avenue. Camille [Julmy], your company has been active on Michigan Avenue and you headed up the Michigan Avenue Association. How do you view Michigan Avenue as a retail mecca?

Webb Camille Julmy (left) and Curt Bailey.

SCB: Bruce [Kaplan], based on your activity in that area, how do you see the retail picture on Michigan Avenue and the surrounding area?

(left to right) Bruce Kaplan, Denver McGarey and Greg Moyer.

SCB: Norris [Eber] Joseph Freed & Associates is involved on State Street. Are you still involved?

(left to right) Norris Eber, Greg Apter and James Turner.

SCB: Do you see State Street as a good opportunity?

Eber: It's a challenging street. It starts off with who owns the dirt and half the time you've got the 100-year-old ground leases, just to begin on the puzzle of who owns it. Then it's a little more challenging on restoration of the buildings. There are some challenges left. You have to balance the city's desire to keep certain ambience and feel within the marketplace of State Street, only it's moving up as they want to keep the older buildings. It will cost you a lot more.

SCB: Curt [Bailey], west of the Dan Ryan, you're planning Chatham, a 430,000-square-foot-center. How has the leasing been going? Has it been challenging building a retail property in the city?

Bailey: The challenge there has been educating the retailers on the South Side. I think what it comes down to is really a matter of the density that we have around the site, the traffic pattern and that we're already in an established retail corridor. All of these projects are difficult and you come back to a couple of numbers. Within a 5-mile radius of the site we have 1 million people, so that will continue to drive our leasing. It really comes from the dearth of leasing and retail in the area. You have that small node but other than that, you can draw a large swath of people with disposable income in that area.

SCB: Has the neighborhood been excited about the development?

Bailey: Absolutely. Not only does the construction work with local contractors but also the employment we're going to provide. It's been very well received. I think there are more opportunities. Clearly this part of Chicago would be underserved without the center.

SCB: Marlon [Stone], as one who represents a number of retailers, how are the clients of Katz & Associates perceiving the opportunities in Chicago? Are there new retailers who are looking at the market?

Marlon Stone.

SCB: Donna [Low Harwood], as a contractor, sometimes you have inside information as far retailers' expansions are concerned. What are you working on now and what's coming into the market that you can talk about?

SCB: It's very interesting when we do the round tables — malls used to be the choice. Today, you never even hear people talking about the malls. And we're the media and you really don't hear much. Donna [Low Harwood], what about construction costs? Are they holding the line?

Low Harwood: Well this time of year, of course they're going to go up. January is great but this time of year, now we have turned down work the two heaviest months of the year.

SCB: Greg [Kirsch], what is Baum Realty's perception of retail downtown?

Kirsch: The Loop has obviously been our core business for the last 10 years and it will continue to be such, though I think our firm has diversified a little bit. Our tenants are requiring us to take them to every market. I think 7 or 8 years ago we spent a lot of time in the Loop and tracked every availability. We're involved in about 20 to 30 percent of the transactions. Our business has gone through a tenant rep of probably 80 percent net.

SCB: What tenants do you represent?

Kirsch: We just finished up what we call “the rollout” of 180 stores in the last 3 years. Caribou Coffee, FedEx/ Kinko's, Jared's Jewelers, Pollo Comparo, Panera Bread, Washington Mutual and probably about 20 or 30 different tenants. I don't want to forget about uptown, with the Wilson Yards project. It has a new Target with the 14-screen theater stacked on top of it that will be the first of its kind anywhere. The Loop continues to be active, the vacancies are low, the average rents are $50 per square foot, but my clients have real saturation, so I'm not looking to actively hunt in the Loop. I did a couple of Caribou Coffee deals and you notice that Starbucks had 31 stores in the Loop. I couldn't believe it.

SCB: Tell us about Bucktown.

Kirsch: I guess you can consider the apex of Bucktown to be North Milwaukee and Damen, which is about 2.5 miles northwest of the Loop. Look for it to usurp Armitage Avenue's fashion hub, look to see essentially a small section of SoHo just picked up and put into Bucktown. Scoop, a retailer from New York, just signed a lease. Urban Outfitters is another one. The G-Star Denim that Donna [Low Harwood] was just talking about. Right now rents are $35. In the next 3 years, they'll be $50 to $60 a foot.

SCB: Is there a lot of new apartment construction there, or are the older homes being renovated?

Kirsch: About 10 years ago, the artists came in and found affordable housing they could convert. About 6 years ago the yuppies started coming. If you go look at it today, it's strollers and median incomes of about $120,000. It's condos at $275 to $350 per square foot. A lot is $1.2 million if you want to buy a lot in Bucktown. If you drive up Milwaukee Avenue, you might look up and down and say ‘there's a few derelict furniture stores.' If you drive one block off of the intersection, you wouldn't know difference between it and Lincoln Park.   So it's really coming along. For example, Pollo Comparo at the Brickyard has a line out the door. There are cars stacked in the parking lot. You can't actually park close to it. They are selling unbelievable amounts of chicken. I can't give you the sale, but it's probably going to outpace the openings in Queens and the openings in Los Angeles. It rivals Krispy Kreme — remember everybody was crazy about Krispy Kreme with the lines out the door — this has the same exact kind of energy. It's primarily Hispanic audiences. It's worth driving and taking a look at. You probably haven't seen anything like this.

SCB: I remember when they built The Brickyard. It was really the first inner city mall.   Dick [Spinnell], can you give us a little background on that? It's an interesting redevelopment.

Dick Spinnell.

SCB: Mid-America is obviously a dynamic and big company in the city in retail. What are your clients looking for?

Spinnell: On the tenant rep side, they're really looking at everything from urban to suburban and they're all quite active looking at all the different venues, whether it's a multi-level venue in the city or heading out into the cornfields and just doing the traditional stores.

SCB: Jim [Schutter], your company is an owner.   How do you feel as far as real estate is concerned? Are you looking to buy more? Are properties doing well?

James Schutter.

SCB: Do you still own retail in Chicago?

Schutter: We own about 2.5 million square feet of retail and about half of that is in the Chicago market.

SCB: Gwen [Callans], how do you look at the Chicago retail scene as a broker?

(clockwise from front) Gwen Callans, Barry Millman, Katie Steiner, Marlon Stone and Dick Spinnell.

Sy Taxman.

If you wanted to get into what really lifestyle is, you need to then deal with something that is much more than retail. How about the library, how about the schools, how about everything that ties into the retail environment and that really would be ‘some lifestyle type of experience.' I'm fortunate that at the company we're probably involved in the largest ‘lifestyle' center in the metro south and that is Oak Park River Forest. If you go to the intersection of Lake and Howe, 1 mile to the west, 1 mile to the east, just take the narrow course and just take a look and count up the number of different merchants, residents, post offices, the entire game, 2 blocks over public mass transit. Well, we went out there a decade ago, and frankly, it was not an intersection that I wanted to stand on. It was an abandoned intersection. We have one of the best lifestyle anchor tenants in Whole Foods — in that location we're able to get $1,000 per square foot. The opportunities are there but I think we make a terrible mistake by trying to just label them. I think what you need to do is analyze what is happening in the community you're working in and that's really what we're doing now. We control a parcel thatwould allow us, if we get the infrastructure approval, to build up 1.1 million square feet of retail and 400 for-sale homes. We actually own and control the property so we're very interested in understanding what lifestyle, big box centers, residential and so on. But I think we should really be focused on what the needs are of a particular site, I don't care if you call it lifestyle, whatever. The site we're thinking of combines big boxes, it combines lifestyle, it combines residential and in time, we're either going to be proven right or wrong. I think that was your experience, Dick [Spinnell], as a broker, that you finally decided, ‘hey, we need to start with a fresh camp because of this community.' I think that's kind of the approach we have to take.

Spinnell: If you look at our newer lifestyle centers, the tenants that are in those properties, some of them came from the malls so they're needing to grow and continue their expansion. Many of them are power center type of tenants so really, the boundary lines aren't so distinct as they were 15, 20 years ago when you had mall tenants and you had strip center tenants. You have tenants that are looking for venues in which to conduct and grow their business in all different forms and fashions.

Jaffe: I agree with you, Dick, and I'm sure I'll surprise everybody in this room by saying that I actually do think there is such thing as a lifestyle center. I can tell you what a lifestyle center is and answer your question. Every center with a Starbucks is a lifestyle center. Obviously, whatever you call it, I think these lifestyle centers are addressing particular needs — that is evident.   We hear over and over that our customers are yearning for some pedestrian sensitivity, when you're in the center you don't have to move your car every single time you want to go anywhere, a desire for intimacy — these were the things the mall clearly lacked. We get it over and over, people dread going to big malls.   Highland Park is a wonderful town but in some of these areas like Algonquin or Geneva or the project we're working on called The Arboretum in South Barrington, there is no town center. People are yearning for a place to gather and greet and meet and go to a variety of restaurants and have some feeling of a town. But there is something called the lifestyle center that has been established. People know it when they see it and I think it has the qualities of pedestrian-friendliness, upscale ambience, sensitivity to landscaping aesthetics, pathways, as well as what we used to see, by and large, as mall tenants. Restaurants are also key components of lifestyle centers.  

Stone: The heyday of the mall was during the time when families had a single-earner. Today we have double-income families and a timetrack and kids and lifestyles per se was an adaptation for a mother of the kid that has to get to work, to soccer, go shopping, and deal with traffic. She wants to drive 10 minutes and have all her needs met. Lifestyle centers, for lack of a better word, are closer to where people live to allow you get to more goods and services, in and out quicker, where the primarily 35- to 50-year-old female, double income or not, is doing all the shopping.

SCB: We also see lifestyle retail in downtown areas and the suburbs. Naperville and Highland Park could be considered lifestyle centers because you've got everything there and the parking is very good. The whole suburban area here is just booming. Housing is moving out. At last year's roundtable, people mentioned Oswego and that area. Could you give us a little perspective of that area?

Jaffe: As far as development's concerned?   Well those of us who live here know this but for your national audience: the lakefront is a given, there's no development east, so there's obviously tremendous pressure as always to move farther out west, northwest, southwest, along the highways. The I-88 corridor keeps stretching west and has gone well west of Orchard Road and Randall Road. But it's a reflection in part of where can people get to school, where can the homebuilders get lots that are ready to go, that are still affordable. You're talking about Sugar Grove and Yorkville and areas further. DeKalb is the outer limits of the Chicago markets nowadays. But a lot of this has to do in part with affordable land for residential developers and these guys are building enormous developments.

Schutter: I'm working with a developer who's looking for land sites in the far-off range and we've been pursuing a number of things in the Randall Road, Oswego area. I've seen a tremendous increase in prices for large retail land parcels out there. One parcel on Randall Road we are looking at went from $5.50 to $9 per square foot in the matter of when we started negotiations to when somebody else got control of it after the fact.

Jaffe: Big sites out in the suburbs that are well located are really in high demand and the long lease that we used to command with options are gone.

Taxman: I know most people at this table here before planning about it, and I'm starting to hear a response from one of the buzz words, ‘pedestrian friendly.' Don't get sucked in by that. The fact remains that these centers require convenient parking. When we go before municipalities that want to tell us that their constituents are going to walk to the center, how do you argue with that? We argue to see how far these customers are willing to go — 2 blocks. Realistically, urban, suburban properties by 2 blocks. So what we need to, I think as an industry, is have bigger blocks.

SCB: Might that change with gas prices continuing to rise?

Taxman: No, because there's going to be alternative fuel. What's going to happen is that instead of getting 20 miles to a gallon, you'll have cars that get 40 miles to the gallon. At that point, the cost per mile will be the same when you buy gas for $4, $5 dollars versus buying it at $2. This parking situation, if you look at the really successful established communities, where they have been able to grow their retail, Naperville's a good example. One of the finest ones is Lake Forest, up on the North Shore. You go into downtown Lake Forest, first thing, there is no parking in downtown. When you drive around, you find these small, well-landscaped lots that are located throughout the entire community, so that you park your car and walk 150 feet to go shopping. And I think that emphasis of so-called ‘pedestrian-friendly' is just another buzz word. It doesn't mean anything because the consumer is not going to leave home and walk 3 or 4 blocks to go shopping.

Jerome Ferstman (left) and Michael Jaffe .

SCB: How far along are you on your Bolingbrook project?

Ferstman: It is phenomenal. The IKEA is going to open the end of September. We have been warned that between the 28th and October 2nd, they are going to have 1,000 cars a day. The village has arranged for artillery lots, a little trolley, we had a great response since we've brought the mayor down. The Marshall Field's store, the Bass Pro. We started out with about 1.2 million square feet, we're adding another 250,000 to 300,000 feet to it. Leasing is just really strong and we're getting good responses in terms of rent. Bolingbrook is southwest, right off of 355. It was really kind of a sleeper. We're the fifth developer that's tried to do a project, and I'd like to say it's all genius but the stars lined up. Marshall Field's got bought by The May Company, we have a good relationship with The May Company, Bass Pro is going to open in the fall of 2006. It's just now they've announced this connection between 355 and 80 and retailers know of that, so now you're going to suck tons of traffic up 355. It was, in some respect, a very fortunate opportunity.

SCB: Alex [Dmyterko], what projects are keeping you active?

Dmyterko: We are active with a combination of build-to-suit development, which is basically retailer-driven, retail and some collective land development in Will County and Kendall County. We're buying property in Plainfield to develop about 14 acres which we're going to take down in October and lease it up afterwards. I've got retail developments in Las Vegas right now, and the Coachella Valley in California. We're working on a pipeline of build-to-suit in the Chicago area.

McGarey: What's interesting about the malls in particular, in Forest City obviously, is that they have evolved tremendously. The death of the mall is grossly exaggerated. Lenox Square is hopping, South Coast Plaza is hopping. Where I live, Fashion Valley Mall is jammed. “A” malls are moving and I think the difficulty for them and the reason we've been able to sort of edge in around them and tell different stories is that they have very little GLA they can manipulate to affect change. We are essentially creating, or attempting to create, authentic places where people can live. We're looking at an aging demographic that had the second home, they like the turnkey, we have a lot of to-go, a lot of prepared foods. All of things that are happening are really no different — just look at the consumer. I don't think real estate invents the consumer, I think it's the other way around and I think that's really what we've begun to embrace. Who in this room looks for the worst parking space to where you want to go? Nobody. So what we've essentially tried to create in the projects we've been involved with, Gallery Place and Atlantic Station, is to try to find both. We've effectively tried to bring people within the zones of the project that they want to frequent. We've tried to mix it up enough so we can effectively do that, but you're never going to quite get it right. Where I live in Coronado, is very interesting because we do in fact walk everywhere. I don't think lifestyle really started with a return to Mayberry. I remember thinking it was Buck Sappenfield and the Limited. I remember sitting with some of the co-pioneers, the pioneers. It was driven by ZIP codes. We wanted to get to North Scottsdale, we want to do it in Scarsdale, we want to be where the discretionary income is and a lot of other things evolved from that. I think it's all consumer-driven. I think it's a collision of lifestyle in terms of the way the people are truly living it, in the areas in which they live in. Then we're invited to come in and wrap the skin around the structure — that's really waiting for it.

Jaffe: The Chicago lifestyle centers, and when we were working on Geneva Town Center with my partner Jeff Anderson, a lot of people were so skeptical but Deer Park was a rock, and these sales per square foot are not illusion. When you're talking about sales in excess of $450 to $475 per square foot, the proof is in the pudding.   But how many more are warranted? So what we're trying to do with the Arboretum, for instance, and recognizing and what I hear you saying about Bolingbrook, is the differentiation of selves from being from the Scripps center with mall tenants. We're recognizing, as you're seeing with IKEA, home furnishings is humongous right now. You can't address it enough. We're calling our center a homestyle center. My partner spent a tremendous amount of time in North Carolina. At the Merchandise Mart, they made the whole first floor into Luxe Home. With all the new home building and all the new add-on work people are doing here now, it's the one area that does not get addressed enough as it seems, the aggregation of stores that can address things for the home. IKEA in Schaumburg, right up the street from us, is drawing people from all over the Chicago area, like you're seeing in Atlanta. There's an unaddressed need, as we've heard from our shoppers, to make buying things for the home more convenient, more accessible, more ready.

Spinnell: The anchored tenants were very traditional and buyer-specific 15 or 20 years ago. Today, you see a Nordstrom and a Target co-anchoring a shopping center. Ten years ago, never. A lot of these lifestyle centers are being anchored by bookstores and Dick's Sporting Goods stores.

SCB: NAI has a design center under development. Ryan [Murphy], can you tell us about that?

Ryan Murphy (left) and Alex Dmyterko.

SCB: Are there any urban or suburban areas that you see as offering extra potential that have been overlooked?

Murphy: We like a lot of the suburban downtowns and I think you're going to see a lot of growth and a lot of the national tenants pushing suburban downtown. A lot of cities are trying to emulate what Naperville's done, which has been wildly successful.

Spinnell: Going back to what Sy [Taxman] said, lot of the planners and maybe community people have these great visions but they all are forgetting about parking and a lot of these retailers are used to having lots of parking.

Caruso: I think that's a good point, Dick, and I think also that the whole residential component where some of the suburbs qualify for that because they've got the residential growth. Others wish they had it yet they still seem to be going forward with the retail plans.

SCB: Barry [Millman], representing the tenants?

Barry Millman.

SCB: Are those tenants local or are they national?

Millman: A real combination of both. We've done several furniture retailers that just can't afford the high retail cost. A lot of destination retailers, the Family Dollar Stores of the world. I am told by their banks that their stocks are better than Walgreen's have been, so we are taking a lot of these stores. Dollar General used to do stores out in the hinterland but they're now finding that these opportunities in former Walgreen's stores are very beneficial to their bottom line. We're also doing a lot of stores with Cingular, they are victims of the mergers. We're doing stores with Jo-Ann Fabrics and with Burlington Coat Factory where they find they have surplus stake. We have stores ranging from 3,000 to 25,000 square feet. Right now we probably have 30 of them going from Rockford down to Dalton.

SCB: Greg [Apter], give us your perspective of what is happening with the retailers you're working with to dispose of space in the Chicago market?

Apter: We work on a national basis and we get a real flavor of everything. We are active in the malls, we've got lifestyle side, we've got a lot of the grocery side in anywhere from the small farm outside Tuscaloosa [Alabama] to Chicago. Much of what we find ultimately is location based. There's an entire marketplace right now that's set up and one of the bigger clients is Wal-Mart. Everybody understands what happens: Wal-Mart decides to relocate and 2 years later they've relocated and they do their best to try to reoccupy the stores, but often it doesn't happen. So then what's the next question? Where does the Supercenter relocate? It locates across the street, everything's fine. New tenants will come in, the area will fill, be more robust, everything's okay. They move 3 miles away, whether it's a midsize market, or small market, everything shifts that direction and then the marketplace changes. So what you're getting now is a lot of interest and creating this sort of second-tier marketplace of potential buyers that can buy locations on value-add basis, per square foot basis, on a 10, 11, 12 cap basis where they can go ahead and find strategic users like the Family Dollars and the Dollar Generals and the Dollar Trees. Sometimes the office supply stores and others also create actual value-add properties. It doesn't so much apply to Chicago because one way or the other, Chicago will be finding new users, unless they're very poor locations. Most likely, sellers and owners are patient enough to just wait it out and reoccupy.

SCB: What about the West Loop?

Julmy: It's much less than the South Loop or Clybourne. You have some residential being built there and office that has gone west of the river. One of our famous projects is Metra Market that we talked about a long time ago. I think we're very close and we're working with the city to have a TIF to get the project really going for next year and we can sign two or three anchor tenants and that can finally get going. But there is much more going even west of the entranceway because you have a lot of residential, so that is also an interesting location from downtown point of view because you're so close it's just absolutely amazing.

SCB: Has there been any interest in the West Loop, including Randolph Street?

McGarey: It's all restaurants. It's a really hot area now.